Regular salt ⇐ Dishwasher chemicals

[Jora]

A question. In stores, special salt for dishwashers is consumed. But is it possible to use regular kitchen water instead to soften water?

[Maxi]

I personally read people’s reviews about using regular “Extra” table salt, and I’m also going to try this experiment. Because no one, despite the threats of special salt manufacturers, had anything broken from table salt. And the difference in cost is significant.
Special dishwasher salt costs 70 rubles\kg, and "Extra Polesie" - 10 rubles\kg
7 times cheaper!!!

[Guest]

a "Extra Polesie" - 10 rubles\kg

We don’t sell Extra below 14 rubles. I bought a pack yesterday. I fell asleep half a kilo. The toad also strangled me to buy special crystal salt. If the machine dies, I’ll report it.

[Guest]

Wouldn’t rock salt work? It looks almost like a store-bought crystal one, only not as transparent. Has anyone tried it?

[D-Avilov]

I’ve never measured how long a kilogram of salt lasts, but I decided to do an experiment.
Today the salt shortage light came on, I added a kilogram of fine "Extra". I’ll see how long it takes for the light to come on again. And then I’ll do the same with special salt. Thus, we will see the real benefits of using table salt.

[sergg]

Well, you are really tight!! Why put all sorts of rubbish in there? the benefit is very dubious!
the salt there is different, purified, coarse!! Small ones won’t let water through. Damn, they found the money for a machine, but they can’t afford salt... I understand, if they could find a replacement for the powders 7 times cheaper...

[D-Avilov]

the salt there is different, purified

And not food grade purified or what? The standards are even more stringent, IMHO.

they found money for a machine, but they can’t afford salt

I bought a car once and that’s it, but the salt and powder are constantly costing me money. The result is a golden machine.

So, I am reporting on the first half of my experiment.
The frequency of washing dishes is 2 times a day, a Bosch machine for 14 sets.
1 kg extra salt was enough for 17 days.
Today I’ll add 1 kg of special salt and report back on how long it will last.

[D-Avilov]

Well, today the salt lamp came on.
1 kg of special salt of the Yplon brand was also enough for 17 days.
T.o. there is no difference between 1 kg of special and 1 kg of "Extra" salt!

[vrumpel]

Colleagues, you are right: ordinary salt is absolutely suitable for the machine. The process there is sodium cationization of substitution of hardness salts. Any industrial water treatment works exactly the same way, and the salt there is completely ordinary NaCl. The only nuance that has always confused me is that both in dishwashers and in industrial installations, the salt is granulated, in the first case into crystals, in the second into fairly large briquettes, this is apparently done for the purpose of ease of dosing and to prevent the formation suspension of undissolved crystals. And so I sprinkle the usual extra.

[Guest]

I accidentally added iodized salt of the "Extra" brand. So far the flight is normal.

[Jack]

Manufacturers, under the guise of special salt for dishwashers, add regular, even unrefined salt; the only thing they can do is add a little soda. NaCl or sodium chloride, rock salt, etc., those who studied at school and took chemistry lessons should remember that to soften water it is necessary in order to dissolve the calcium and magnesium salts contained in the water, thus softening it , That. Scale and white deposits on dishes do not form on heating elements. Bottom line, we pay not for salt, but for advertising and our lack of education. As a counter-advertising, if a special chemically active salt were actually used, would you decide to use the dishes for food after washing?

[Alexander]

Oh, I read it and am amazed. I can’t believe this is true. I am sincerely amazed at how massively and openly we are being fooled. Those "who studied at school and took chemistry lessons" should remember that table salt does not react in any way with calcium and magnesium salts. Hardness salts are usually calcium and magnesium bicarbonates and sulfates. Table salt could convert them into chlorides if they were insoluble in water. However, they are remarkably soluble. To soften water, these calcium and magnesium cations must either be converted into insoluble salts or bound into a strong complex. The first can be done, for example, with sodium carbonate - soda ash or trisodium phosphate (insoluble carbonates or phosphates will precipitate), the second - for example, Trilon B or sodium tripolyphosphate (sold, for example, under the name "Calgon"). If you don’t believe me, take a look at the most basic textbooks of inorganic chemistry, or at least Wikipedia, article “Water Hardness”. There is also something about the “cationization” mentioned here, but sodium chloride (aka table salt) has nothing to do with it at all - cation exchange resins are needed. I consider the requirement to pour salt into the dishwasher as a way of promoting money from their ignorant owners. Neither special nor ordinary table salt does absolutely nothing with hardness salts! Just in case - I am a professional chemist, a candidate of chemical sciences, one might say, without a few months of doctor

[Alexander]

We dug around the net and found that these dishwashers actually have ion exchangers. Well then it’s clear - salt is needed to periodically regenerate them by washing it with a concentrated solution. And, of course, any table salt will do for this. The size of the crystals should not affect - the solution works. The only impurities that can interfere are mechanical insoluble ones - like sand. Therefore, extra, which is cleared of them, is probably best suited. It is unlikely that table salt contains any ions that will tightly clog the ion exchanger. So in the previous post I was too harsh on car manufacturers and salt for them. Although, they sell salt at a much inflated price...

[adm2]

Alexander, thanks for the detailed information! The issue of salt use worries many.

[Guest]

Maybe sprinkle soda to soften it... but where, along with salt?

[To]

but where, along with salt?

Together It’s better not to use salt!

[then]

Salt is definitely needed for the regeneration of the sodium cation exchanger filter. It is this that reduces water hardness. All filters using cation exchange resin, such as household drinking water filters, industrial water treatment systems in thermal power plants and boiler houses, use NaCl for regeneration. I believe that using “Extra” table salt is unlikely to harm the car, especially since this salt is of a higher purity. Why salt intended for dishwashers is granulated, it is most likely to increase its shelf life and guarantee refilling, because... fine salt cakes. The salt I use is 95% NaCl and 5% dietary supplement . I use hot water for the dishwasher, in which any salt will dissolve perfectly, so I’ll add "Extra"

[Guest]

There is E-265 in your salt
The E-265 food additive is called Dehydroacetic acid (DHAA).
....

B The use of this additive in food products is unacceptable in the European Union. This is due to the chemical activity of the substance: the acetyl group can react with protein amino acids, forming toxic compounds.

[OCEAN-FLOWERS.rf]

The additive there is E262, not E265 (use magnification when viewing images). E262 - sodium acetate (what is formed in the dough when soda is slaked with vinegar).
See. "http://ru.wikipedia.#org/wiki/Sodium_acetate"
For other food additives see "http://ru.wikipedia.#org/wiki/Food_supplement "
{Copy the link addresses inside the quotes, paste them into the address field of the browser, remove the # symbols in the link addresses to make them work.}

And coarse salt is made exclusively so that she couldn’t clog the holes (if there’s a lot of fine salt and not enough water, it turns out to be a dense paste, and coarse salt doesn’t fit into the hole).
(It’s the same as if you dump a lot of coffee or tea into the sink and rinse it off lightly water - it can get clogged. And if you add the same thing little by little, rinsing off with plenty of water, then everything will go away calmly.)

So, pour in a special one. And if you don’t have money for it, then food, but make sure it doesn’t clog (in this case it’s better to eat less, but you’ll have to do it more often))). Don’t pour stone. Although it is larger, there are a lot of all sorts of insoluble pebbles and sand there.

--
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[Guest]

If I use a polyphosphate filter, will this eliminate the need to use salt?

[then]

In principle, we are discussing one question here: will the dishwasher fail if you use “Extra” food salt instead of special salt? Anyone who has a firm answer, please respond.

[came out]

For about a year I used Extra instead of special salt. The quality of dishwashing was excellent. But recently I noticed that a kilogram of salt began to be enough for fewer washes. The salt shortage light began to light up more often. I don’t know what this is connected with. I taste the water from the tank after the light comes on - it’s fresh. Those. the salt disappears somewhere.
I bought 2 kg of special salt of the Sanit brand in Auchan for forty-odd rubles, I want to see after what period the light bulb lights up.
By the way, this Sanit salt is not crystalline, it looks like regular finely ground salt.
Ingredients: sodium chloride, surfactant. And it is written that it should not be eaten.
I liked that the price of this salt is close to regular food salt, only twice as expensive.

[Guest]

Nikalai, share the results of using salt from Auchan - is there a noticeable difference in consumption with Extra?

[Andrey-Vorobey]

Yes, I’m also puzzled by this question now. Yesterday we almost bought an expensive special one. Today I’ll buy an extra_))))

[Sergey]

And I always bought special salt in large Finish crystals. And yesterday I bought Somat salt. And it is fine, like regular extra table salt. This is where the toad brought me to this forum in search of an answer to the main question of this topic. In Minsk, the prices for extra and special salt differ 10 times (((But in extra almost everywhere there is an anti-caking additive E536 in the composition. And Somat also contains pure sodium chloride.
The result - the question remains: is E536 harmful Ion exchange resin additive? If not, why pay more...

[Guest]

I read that you do not recommend rock salt due to the presence of inclusions in it. But what about "specks" and dirt on dirty plates? ... suddenly I came back from a picnic and threw the dishes in to wash)) ... in my opinion, PMM is designed to remove all excess from the dishes.

[Sergey]

Guest, figure out how PMM works. The salt water passes through an ion exchanger and is discharged into the sewer. And then water from the main passes through it, softens it, and is supplied for washing dishes. That is, dishes cannot be washed with salt water. Your leftover food will never end up on the ion exchanger.
So the question about the effect of the E536 additive on the ion exchange resin remains relevant.

[24vat]

I had experience in the past of using regular salt instead of special salt. P.M was Bosch brand. So everything was not bad until a friend told her story that she used citric acid as a descaler, albeit in a washing machine. I decided, why not try it in P.M. I tried, I don’t remember how many times, but more than once, but not for long. The service center tortured me for a long time about how it happened that some sensor I don’t remember exactly failed. We waited a long time for it from Moscow, but under warranty, after 45 days, the money was returned and I bought an Electrolux. Then he sprinkled in special salt. For over 6 years now. But here the toad is strangling again. Our salt costs 1.5 kg from 115 rubles.
So, reading net. If it were under warranty, I would take a chance on a new one. But alas. Let’s smoke net further.

[Guest]

I’ve been using regular salt since the first day and for four years now, so far the flight has been normal.

[then]

About the salt. I bought this salt in Auchan, the price for a 2-kilogram bag is 50 rubles, but it chokes the toad, because... I didn’t find any differences.

[dill]

I rinse regular rock table salt - it turns out to be 99.99% "special" type salt.
1. Pour regular rock salt into the first container. 2. Fill with (cold) water. 3. Stir: more than a certain amount of salt will not dissolve!, we get a saturated salt solution and 2/3 of the salt will not dissolve and will settle. let stand for 2-3 minutes. 4. Stir and pour the cloudy solution into a second bowl. 5. Let it sit for 30-40 minutes: at the bottom of the second container we will see a cloudy sediment. 6. Carefully pour the sediment solution from the second container into the first container. We repeat points 3-6 twice and points 3-4 again: in the first container we get washed coarse crystalline salt.
You can dry the washed salt in the microwave, for example (do not forget about the rule "200g of liquid-containing product"!)
approx. From the remaining saturated solution drained from the sediment, salt can be evaporated for use for technical purposes (not culinary).

[Garvm]

After reading many references, I came to the conclusion.
As a rule, a component is added to table salt that prevents the product from caking. Most often it is ordinary gypsum (calcium sulfate hydrate). It is harmless to humans, especially since its quantity is very small.
But when it gets on the ion exchange resin, it essentially clogs it, making part of the surface inactive. The machine will not break down; visually you may not even notice changes in operation. The water just won’t soften. What does this mean? Maybe washing dishes will be a little worse. But it is not important. The main thing is that hard water promotes the formation of scale, especially on heating elements. This is more serious. So it’s up to you to choose.
I myself want to try tableted salt for drinking water softeners. It is sold in bags of 25 kg and costs about 600 rubles. The operating principle of softeners is the same as in PMM - ion exchange. I think the composition of the salt is similar. The only "but". The dissolution speed of crystals and tablets may vary. Need to try.

[nnmd]

Garvm

1. Extra table salt consists of 99.7% NaCl, typical composition:
   

   Code: Select all

   Mass fraction of sodium chloride, %, not less than 99.7
   Mass fraction of calcium ion, %, not more than 0.02
   Mass fraction of magnesium ion, %, not more than 0.01
   Mass fraction of sulfate ion, %, not more than 0.16
   Mass fraction of potassium ion, %, not more than 0.02
   Mass fraction of iron (III) oxide, %, not more than 0.005
   Mass fraction of sodium sulfate, %, not more than 0.20
   Mass fraction water-insoluble residue, %, no more than 0.03
   Mass fraction of moisture, %, no more than 0.10
   

2. About the supplement you described:
   calcium sulfate dihydrate, registered as a food additive E516, used as an emulsifier, coagulant, there is no data on use as an anti-caking additive.
3. About the additive actually used:
   Potassium hexacyanoferrate(II), registered as food additive E536, used as an emulsifier and anti-caking agent. the rate of addition to food products is up to 20 mg/kg, judging by this information has no effect on the ion exchange resin.
4. It should be noted that the ion exchange resin does not last forever, even with constant restoration with salt, its resource is limited to 3-6 years depending on the hardness of the water.

[Timofey]

http://vashtehnik.ru/posudomoechnye- mas ... ybrat.html here is the composition of the salt

[Timofey]

And the instructions say - you can’t change it to cook food!

[Vadim]

My experience with extra brand salt has been disappointing. Yes, salt in p/m is only for the regeneration of the cation exchange resin, which softens the water in it. Out of stupidity, I poured in finely ground extra, and after three days it hardened into stone. I picked it with a chisel, thank God it went away. The moral of the story is, is regular salt okay instead of special salt? Yes it does, but the coarser the grind the better. It is a fact))))

[Pavel]

Guys, I’m not a chemist and didn’t study well, but one day I bought dishwasher salt from an unpromoted company and was surprised that it was of a fine fraction just like Extra, in the end I tried Extra at my own peril and risk, the effect is the same except for saving from 250 to 400 rubles per quarter.

[Pavel]

My experience with extra brand salt is sad. Yes, salt in p/m is only for the regeneration of the cation exchange resin, which softens the water in it. Out of stupidity, I poured in finely ground extra, and after three days it hardened into stone. I picked it with a chisel, thank God it went away. The moral of the story is, is regular salt okay instead of special salt? Yes it does, but the coarser the grind the better. This is a fact))))

Vadim, the instructions for the machine indicate to sprinkle salt immediately before starting, maybe the problem is not the size of the granules?

[Guest]

Vadim, the instructions for the machine indicate to sprinkle salt immediately before starting, maybe the problem is not the size of the granules?

Is this something to sprinkle on a spoon before each launch?

[xslavik]

I read everything that was written.
The idea was raised that salt water flushes the iodine exchanger, and is somehow cunningly isolated from washing dishes.
For some reason, no one remembered that you don’t have to add salt, but use 3 in 1 tablets - salt, powder, rinse aid.

In general, it’s strange that no one really fully understands how dishwashers work. I’m not an exception.

[mechanics]

Dear colleagues, especially for those who are tormented by doubts.
There are special devices - filters for softening water using ion exchange resins.
In the instructions, the manufacturer writes the following:
"regeneration of the resin by passing through it a solution of table salt (NaCl), prepared in advance in a salt tank."
This is subject to availability such a tank. If it is not there, there is a lid at the end of the container of such a device that allows you to add salt for regeneration in dry form, the manufacturer writes:
"The process of water softening is carried out through ion exchange when water passes through
a special ion exchange resin, which is placed in the body of the device.
As the device operates, after passing through it a certain amount of tap
water, it is necessary to restore the ability of the resin to carry out the softening process.The amount
of water, after which it is necessary to carry out the regeneration process, indicated in the technical specifications.
To regenerate the resin, use table salt."
So, for a softener with a volume of 12 liters, 2 kg of salt is required, after passing ( softening) 1250 liters of water, at a temperature of 20 degrees.
During regeneration, water and salt are drained into the sewer thanks to the special taps provided.
Total: table salt. For large filters, we use stone in bulk.
Extra is better for a dishwasher, the experience of use is described here, but the regeneration procedure is according to the instructions.

[kostyanika2007]

Hi all. Pmm purchased two years ago. the first time they filled up with special. salt, then add only extra salt. the quality of washing has not decreased. The water is very hard, the settings are set to maximum.

[sergeyssv82]

below in the right corner is the composition.. And this is the finish.. Ugh! I was cheated for once, it’s really a shame.. I’ll add extra with water right away so that it doesn’t coke

[Kasinaka]

I don’t know why they write that dishwasher salt should not be used in food. In Italy, 13-14 years ago, we baked fish in salt for PM. Alive means there is no difference between regular and special salt. Sonata Sol also confuses me. Moreover, with us it costs the same as the finish. I am tormented by vague doubts that the manufacturer puts ordinary salt in there, and puts the pure broth in his pocket

[Valery]

You can’t pour the usual one, because it doesn’t completely dissolve and will precipitate, which will grow over time..

[Pavlenty]

All water treatment systems use salt, usually granulated or tableted, but purified. Many people are familiar with this fact. On many packs and boxes of salt in Russia it is written "Mozyrsol" - Mozyr is the cradle of granulated salt for water softening systems (there are competitors all over the world and they sell theirs accordingly)

[Guest]

Colleagues, what if we consider the possibility (as they wrote in one of the posts, purified by dissolution) and adding the solution rather than in bulk? I wonder how many washes will last? In this case, obviously nothing will be clogged.

[Guest]

And yet what about the pills??? After all, salt is not used, the tablet goes into the washing water, how is the ion exchanger cleaned in this case?

[Guest]

The tablet probably solves the problem only partially because it contains phosphates.

[Guest]

The tablet probably solves the problem only partially because it contains phosphates.